Curse

Targren · Oct 30, 2008, 01:39 PM // 13:39

I was talking in AC last night about how I never play my Sin for anything except farming anymore, and someone started talking about scythe sins. Since I got a Drok's Reaper from an ally who seriously overcharged me for it awhile back, I figured WTF, I'll give it a shot.

Am I nuts or does this entire concept seem to go against all assassin-class wisdom. I've been playing with the idea, rather than going to PvX and grabbing the first build that I see, but the ones I HAVE seen all seem to use skills like [Eremite's attack]. Am I nuts or is putting yourself in a position for Eremite's attack to be good (i.e. being surrounded by baddies) is kind of counterproductive to the "The assassin is NOT A TANK" mindset?

Of course, I've been wrong before, so I did give it a shot. In EotN Normal mode, between magic spikes and huge mob sizes (I'm in southern Maguuma, Asura area) even Crit Agil + Crit Def doesn't keep me from being spiked to death in seconds (damn dinosaurs) and H/H monks can't keep up.

What's the secret I'm missing?

Tyla · Oct 30, 2008, 01:55 PM // 13:55

Twisting Jaws is a skill that requires touch range to work, so you're not going to be defended against it either way. Crit Defenses is a pretty weak skill when it comes to 8 man play, because it doesn't do anything to help the party out. The reason Eremites' and Mystic are in the bar is because they cut time off attacks, say if you autoattacked once and followed up with either, you'd cut (I think) more than 50% of the original attack time. The damage is just a bonus; and scythes are already insane.

Targren · Oct 30, 2008, 02:17 PM // 14:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

Twisting Jaws is a skill that requires touch range to work, so you're not going to be defended against it either way. Crit Defenses is a pretty weak skill when it comes to 8 man play, because it doesn't do anything to help the party out. The reason Eremites' and Mystic are in the bar is because they cut time off attacks, say if you autoattacked once and followed up with either, you'd cut (I think) more than 50% of the original attack time. The damage is just a bonus; and scythes are already insane.

Good point about the Eremites and mystic... hadn't considered it from that angle.. I looked up scythes. Slow as snail snot, aren't they?

Not sure about the "Not helping the party out" view on CD, though. If it keeps my red bar from going down to give the monk a break, and lets me keep making the bad guys' red bars go down... Not a lot of "utility" in the Sassy class.

Re: Twisting Jaws: That's kind of my point, though. Seems to be a lot of stuff you can't defend against in EotN. (TJ/Chomp, ele spikes, etc...) and none of the builds seem to take that into account.

[Assassin's Remedy] for the bleeding, DW, blind
[Way of the Master] for +crit%
[Critical Agility] because... well ,it's a PvE sin bar and CA is the assassin's Dshot
[Aura of Holy Might] for the +%dmg bonus (and gives you some lovely big yellow numbers when farming undead for orr emblems!)

[Mystic Sweep]
[Eremite's Attack], since I beleive you that it's good
[Victorious Sweep], for a teeny bit of a survivability boost.
[wounding Strike], though I wonder if DW isn't a little overrated in PvE against groups with no healer...

FlamingMetroid · Oct 30, 2008, 02:20 PM // 14:20

Scythe Sins, in my Guild Wars?
Its more likely than you think!

zelgadissan · Oct 30, 2008, 02:22 PM // 14:22

Deep Wound is never overrated. You're not going to find a better elite than Wounding Strike for that bar with A/D. Reaper's Sweep is good with the +damage but tbh it's barely stronger than Victorious, so I'd run the exact bar you listed, potentially dropping either Eremite's or Victorious - probably Victorious - for Asuran Scan.

Tyla · Oct 30, 2008, 02:32 PM // 14:32

If you're using Assassins' Remedy, you might as well spend your elite on something else and use Wearying Strike in my opinion, but I guess this only applies for areas with strong enchantments considering the only useful elites are Wounding Strike and Dark Apostacy.

ac1inferno · Oct 30, 2008, 02:43 PM // 14:43

[build prof=A/D critic=12+1+1 scythe=12][optional][Mystic Sweep][Eremite's Attack][Asuran Scan][Critical Agility][Aura of Holy Might][Way of the Master][Resurrection Signet][/build]

*[Reaper's Sweep] for a heavy damage attack with condition Deep Wound.
*[Wounding Strike] for free Deep Wound covered with Bleeding.

romeus petrus · Oct 30, 2008, 02:45 PM // 14:45

Scythe sins are actually really good in dealing some decent AoE dmg. We use (a)scythe sin(s) in our Urgoz and FoW runs on a regular basis it is also quasy decent as in DoA. So ya it's good, try it out.

Targren · Oct 30, 2008, 02:50 PM // 14:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by zelgadissan

Deep Wound is never overrated. You're not going to find a better elite than Wounding Strike for that bar with A/D. Reaper's Sweep is good with the +damage but tbh it's barely stronger than Victorious, so I'd run the exact bar you listed, potentially dropping either Eremite's or Victorious - probably Victorious - for Asuran Scan.

Yeah, I'm going to modify the bar when I actually GET Asuran Scan.

I figured Eremites or Victorious would go.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

If you're using Assassins' Remedy, you might as well spend your elite on something else and use Wearying Strike in my opinion, but I guess this only applies for areas with strong enchantments considering the only useful elites are Wounding Strike and Dark Apostacy.

You mean to remove the weakness from wearying? Might be something to consider... OTOH, I might not want to do it in condition heavy areas, even though I'm sure the dinos would appreciate me providing a cover condition for them.

I see what you mean about the elites tho. :P Maybe find a spot for AoD or AP or a 6-pt avatar.... Ooohhh... Onslaught.. has potential...

I'll have to play with it after work...

Stealth Bomberman · Oct 30, 2008, 02:59 PM // 14:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Targren

I was talking in AC last night about how I never play my Sin for anything except farming anymore, and someone started talking about scythe sins. Since I got a Drok's Reaper from an ally who seriously overcharged me for it awhile back, I figured WTF, I'll give it a shot.

Am I nuts or does this entire concept seem to go against all assassin-class wisdom. I've been playing with the idea, rather than going to PvX and grabbing the first build that I see, but the ones I HAVE seen all seem to use skills like [Eremite's attack]. Am I nuts or is putting yourself in a position for Eremite's attack to be good (i.e. being surrounded by baddies) is kind of counterproductive to the "The assassin is NOT A TANK" mindset?

Of course, I've been wrong before, so I did give it a shot. In EotN Normal mode, between magic spikes and huge mob sizes (I'm in southern Maguuma, Asura area) even Crit Agil + Crit Def doesn't keep me from being spiked to death in seconds (damn dinosaurs) and H/H monks can't keep up.

What's the secret I'm missing?

PM me ingame ill show u a pve and pvp scythesin build that works wonders all over the field. scythesins are better than MS/DB sins imho. just gonna kno wat skills to bring.

TheDarkshineKnight · Oct 30, 2008, 03:17 PM // 15:17

Off the top of my head, I think I'd run something like:

Wounding Strike
Malicious Strike
Way of the Master
Mystic Sweep
Eremite's Attack
Critical Agility
Aura of Holy Might
Asuran Scan

Gotta have that Malicious strike. The synergy it has with Wounding Strike is just too damned awesome.

Skyy High · Oct 30, 2008, 03:17 PM // 15:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Targren

Am I nuts or does this entire concept seem to go against all assassin-class wisdom.

No such thing. Classes are good at what they're good at, and bad at what they're bad at; "conventional wisdom" about what a class "should" would suggest that necros shouldn't make good healers...yet we have saabway.

Also, Shadow Form pretty handily contradicts the whole "assassins aren't tanks" idea. Assassins can survive quite well, they just need their enchantments to do so; running in unprotected and relying on your armor doesn't work.

Targren · Oct 30, 2008, 04:18 PM // 16:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDarkshineKnight

Gotta have that Malicious strike. The synergy it has with Wounding Strike is just too damned awesome.

Oh my gods, that's hawt. It's like Critical Strike without needing an attack chain!

Thread Drift: What ever happened to the templates and skill icons and stuff??

Tyla · Oct 30, 2008, 06:39 PM // 18:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Targren

Thread Drift: What ever happened to the templates and skill icons and stuff??

It's a bit bugged from the last update; hopefully it gets fixed soon.

The Meth · Oct 30, 2008, 07:43 PM // 19:43

Any class that can use the most powerful weapon in the game (scythe), then get a permanent 33% IAS with it (Critical Agility), then stack the most imba physical damage buff in the game on it (AoHM), then spam deep wound with it (Wounding Strike), and on top of that have a critical rate of around 50-65% is pretty damn awesome. Hitting 150s-200s consistently on multiple targets at a time is pretty damn insane. 70 Armor is all you need against an enemy that is already dead.

TheDarkshineKnight's build is pretty much what I use, give or take an attack skill.

Bobby2 · Oct 30, 2008, 07:55 PM // 19:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stealth Bomberman

scythesins are better than MS/DB sins imho. just gonna kno wat skills to bring.

MS/DB being armor ignoring makes it better suited for HM. Aura of Holy Might doesn't quite match up.

jsn · Oct 31, 2008, 06:51 AM // 06:51

havent gotten into scythe sins very much(just because overall dmg/speed with daggers is more)

but if your having issues with mobs and such an idea would be critical defenses when you get mobbed,your gonna have bodies to replenish and renew crit def,and 75% to block seems like a good idea to me

Super Igor · Oct 31, 2008, 11:42 AM // 11:42

You dont need to be surrounded by foes for eremites attack to be effective, its main advantage is spammability and fast activation time allowing you to frequently spike for high damage.

Your mistake was the fact you were probably rushing ehead of evrything like a noob and dieing, e.g. bad playing because normally you shouldnt be dieing even withou crit agility.

Also the build should be this:
1.asuran scan
2.reaper's sweep
3.mystic sweep
4.eremite's attack
5.way of the master
6.critical agility
7.aura of holy might
8.dash

Crit - 14
Scythe-12

Ful set of survivor insignias, sup vigor and vitae runes.

unless you are failing, this should work out perfectly.

Burst Cancel · Nov 01, 2008, 04:47 AM // 04:47

Critical Defenses is a waste of a slot on an already-cramped bar. Wounding Strike > Reaper's Sweep.

Scythe sins are fun, but they're weak to enchantment hate and less effective overall than standard MSDB if enemies actually have, you know, armor. Though, this is due more to MSDB being ridiculously good rather than scythe being bad.

And DW being overrated = lolwut. If anything, it's underrated because people are ****ing clueless.

Super Igor · Nov 01, 2008, 11:25 AM // 11:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burst Cancel

Critical Defenses is a waste of a slot on an already-cramped bar. Wounding Strike > Reaper's Sweep.

Mmm, not really, the huge bonus damages part is sexy with aohm and scan up. WS is sexy too though, but if you run multiple scythes have only one with ws, others with reaper's and thats for pve, obviously.

Oh and tell me, were did you see crit defenses on mah bar? o____o

Quote:

Scythe sins are fun, but they're weak to enchantment hate and less effective overall than standard MSDB if enemies actually have, you know, armor. Though, this is due more to MSDB being ridiculously good rather than scythe being bad.

Yea, I like MS/DB beter too, though scythes can pack quite a damage. And enchies...well...cant remember last time mobs were good at stripping them. :P